Breaking up with Alcohol: Reframing Recovery with Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen
Breaking up with Alcohol: Reframing Recovery with Sisters in Sobriety
Hosts: Kathleen Killen & Sonia Kahlon
May is Mental Health Awareness month, and in this episode we're thrilled to shine a light on Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen who host the fantastic podcast Sisters in Sobriety. We’re also talking about Everblume, an entirely unique alcohol recovery support community founded by Sonia. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, call or text 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.
“I was functioning at such a high level. I'm not going to refer to myself as an alcoholic. There's a stigma to that word”. Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict who’d always known that "alcoholic" is a label that can sometimes stop people from getting help. But it wasn't until her marriage suddenly ended, and her recovery was put to the test, that she decided to build an alternative approach to recovery. Sonia was looking for consistency, and a place that embraced moderation, as well as total abstinence as legitimate goals. So she founded Everblume, an online support community that meets women wherever they are on their sobriety journey.
Sonia is also one half of the fantastic podcast, Sisters in Sobriety, which she hosts with her ex-sister-in-law, psychotherapist Kathleen Killen. Kathleen has also struggled with substance abuse, so when Sonia asked her to co-host the show it seemed like a great way to share some tools for change.
This episode is a quadruple threat of co-hosts on co-hosts, with these fun, amazing women who never stop teasing each other, even while they're dropping powerful insights on recovery.
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[00:00:00] Kelly: I was functioning at such a high level, right? I got degrees, I started a business, like I'm married, I bought a house, like I'm not going to refer to myself as an alcoholic.
[00:00:09] Sonia: And there's a stigma to that word.
[00:00:12] Keri Vo: That's Sonia Callan, a recovery coach and former addict who got sober in 2016. Sonia had always known that alcoholism is a label that can sometimes stop people from getting help, but it wasn't until her marriage suddenly ended and her recovery was put to the test that she decided to build an alternative to traditional support groups.
[00:00:34] Kathleen: I really needed a sober community and I had never really bothered to create one
[00:00:39] Kelly VO: Sonia founded Everbloom, an entirely unique online community that meets women wherever they are on their sobriety journey
She is also one half of the fantastic podcast, Sisters in Sobriety, which she hosts with her ex sister in law, psychotherapist Kathleen Killen
[00:00:56] Kathleen: I work mostly with couples and I definitely see how [00:01:00] substances are affecting those people and how it's really creating issues within relationships.
[00:01:07] Keri Vo: Kathleen has also struggled with substance abuse. So when Sonia asked her to host the show with her
[00:01:14] Sonia: She forced me to do the podcast. She did.
... Okay. Forced her. .
[00:01:20] Keri Vo: It seemed like a great way to start a wider conversation about unhealthy relationships with alcohol and share some tools for change.
[00:01:27] Kelly VO: May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And on this episode, we're thrilled to shine a light on Sisters in Sobriety and the Everbloom community.
[00:01:36] Keri Vo: It's a quadruple threat of co hosts on co hosts with these fun, amazing women who never stopped teasing each other, even when they're dropping powerful insights on support and recovery.
Welcome to the Breakout a show about smashing through life's little boxes and forging your own path. I'm Dr. Keri Ohlrich.
[00:01:56] Kelly VO: and I'm Kelly Guenther. Carrie and I are people and change [00:02:00] experts and best friends. We've spent more than 25 years helping organizations navigate, change and get the best out of their people.
[00:02:07] Keri Vo: Come on. We know change is hard. But staying the same can even be harder. On the breakout, We prove that you can escape expectations and best of all, we show you. how.
[music ends]
[00:02:19] Keri: Welcome, ladies.
[00:02:21] riverside_sonia_kahlon_raw-audio_kathleen_killen and_0001: Thanks for having us. Thank
[00:02:23] Keri: Thank you. All right.
[00:02:24] Sonia: in a couple of sentences, if you would Give us a quick overview on what you broke away from and what you're helping others break away from.
[00:02:33] Keri: Sonia.
[00:02:34] Sonia: I think I'm still breaking away from Who I thought I should be, which is a orthodontist and wife and certainly not somebody with a raging alcohol addiction. So I'm trying to own that part of me and I'm still trying to break away. There's still like moments we talk about that sometimes of [00:03:00] shame, like when you see it and especially for me, like I was ashamed of my divorce, which just happened.
And then. ashamed of my sobriety when I started dating. And so I'm really working hard to break away from that.
[00:03:13] Kathleen: For me, I, I think I really broke out of limiting self beliefs. I think that I didn't really view myself as a whole person. Um, I felt that I was really broken and that if I viewed myself as a whole person, I would have to accept. who I am just as I am. and I think that now I really help individuals and couples as a psychotherapist to untangle those kind of complexities for themselves and bring a little bit more peace to chaos in their lives.
[00:03:52] Keri: That said so beautifully. I think Sonia, you talked about that should too, which is that word I'm trying so hard [00:04:00] to get rid of. Like What should a wife be? What should, it's such a rough word.
To put on
[00:04:07] Sonia: wrong It's so rough and then anything that doesn't fit it is like a failure, right? it was so easy to fail at marriage when my husband got up and left It was like all of a sudden I had failed. Yeah who
[00:04:20] Kathleen: And dictates this should, right? Like, who is the ruler of the shoulds?
Like, what should an orthodontist look like? what should a psychotherapist? Like, who creates this?
[00:04:31] Sonia: I mean, let's be honest, you look like a psychotherapist. I, do I? Yes. You're wearing a pashmina. Yes. You have a nose ring. You're white. What? have a ring? No.
[00:04:51] Keri: I kind of love the direction this podcast is going already. We're shaming the white psychotherapist immediately. I love
[00:04:59] Kathleen: hmm. it.
happens [00:05:00] daily. It
happens daily.
[00:05:01] Keri: I think, but you said who's the ruler of the should, and isn't to your point Kathleen, the, the self limiting beliefs. Usually we're the worst shoulder of ourselves because we're the ones saying, Oh, I should act like that.
And like, again, where did you even get this? And so usually we're our worst enemies around that.
[00:05:21] Kathleen: we are. I mean, I think it's like looking at where those beliefs come from too, because once we can examine where they come from, we're able to shine a light on it and maybe take a different approach.
[00:05:35] Keri: Uh, it's like, you are promoting our new book that we're talking about, but we're talking about where do those beliefs come from? Right?
So where do all those shoulds, like, like my parents told me this and my culture tells me this and where I grew up
that's our whole book is like, you have to examine where it comes from and then figure out what serves you.
What do I like and which one do I have to say, you know what? That [00:06:00] should is really making my life quite miserable. So, well, I already love the vibe of you, the two of yous.
[00:06:08] riverside_sonia_kahlon_raw-audio_kathleen_killen and_0001: Ha ha ha
[00:06:10] Keri: the two, the two of yous, the two of yous, I can't do a good Chicago accent.
I'm trying to, to lose it a bit, but you, the two of yous are former sister in laws and you host a podcast together about sobriety. So what are your journeys toward sobriety and your relationship with alcohol before things changed for you?
[00:06:29] Kathleen: Well, for me, my journey to sobriety was much different than Sonia's. I, I really didn't realize that I had a substance use disorder until I was 16. actually diagnosed with one. I was diagnosed later in life with ADHD and along with that diagnosis, um, a lovely psychiatrist was like, Oh yeah, and you're recovering from substance use disorder.
And I was like, what?
[00:06:57] riverside_sonia_kahlon_raw-audio_kathleen_killen and_0001: And it
[00:06:58] Kathleen: yeah, it was news to [00:07:00] me, but it wasn't, if that makes sense. So I did not have an alcohol addiction, but I had a cocaine addiction and, um, I used. cocaine a lot when I was in my 20s and early 30s, um, and it was really impacting my life. but it also calmed my brain down because I had undiagnosed ADHD and sometimes that can happen.
So, I, my life shifted when I went away and lived on a beach in a tent in Mexico and became a yoga instructor and I basically had an unintended rehab. So I was heavily using cocaine, went on this yoga teacher training and wasn't allowed caffeine, sugar, substances, nothing, was doing eight hours of yoga a day, meditating for two hours, doing therapy, uh, and I had never felt so good in my life and I came home and I was like, I am [00:08:00] never touching that again.
So it was really kind of a fluke in a sense that I ended up doing that and it really showed me my problem and then as I learned more about ADHD, as well becoming a psychotherapist, being diagnosed, yes, I look back at my, my use of drugs and alcohol as problematic. I don't drink now.
Part of the reason I don't drink now is because I was married to, an alcoholic who was not using alcohol at that time, but was definitely not emotionally sober. And I have a lot of people in my life who are sober and I don't like how I feel on alcohol at all. So that's my sobriety journey. Quite different than Sonia's.
[00:08:43] Keri: Yeah. Sonya, do you want to talk more about your
[00:08:46] Sonia: yeah, mine was, I think it was a lot more obvious that I had a problem. I was just like a very, um, insecure and anxious tween. And when I found [00:09:00] alcohol, all my problems were solved. All of a sudden I wasn't as socially awkward and I fit in. And so I just used it. Yeah. With increasing frequency and volume, as I got older, it was the only coping mechanism I had.
And so, I'm an orthodontist, and when I started my practice, it was really stressful. I was dealing with people all the time and I, I hate people. And so, um, and being their boss especially was just like a very uncomfortable place. And so, um, as my practice grew, it grew to almost 50 employees and seven offices.
I was, drowning and I was drowning myself every night in alcohol and I was so lucky I got to sell the practice. I got an offer out of the blue to sell and I sold and then realized that I had no hobbies and no really strong friendships and [00:10:00] so I got sober and I started working on all those and so Kathleen and I hadn't been close before I got sober.
She was married to my brother, um, and she had my niece and so my niece was around one, I think, when I got sober. And we started to get really close and then her marriage to my brother ended. imploded and that was a really pivotal moment. He was really kind of the linchpin between us, even though we were pretty close and we had a really good rapport.
Um, and then, yeah, he relapsed shortly after they broke up. And that is when we got really close because he really didn't want to be around either of us and we didn't know how to help him. And so we kind of came together to try to figure out how we would do that. And so since then, we've been. Super, super close.
Mm hmm.
[00:10:50] Keri: relationship that the two of you have, and then,
to have so much pain between the two of you and come together to try to help others and share your story and have this [00:11:00] beautiful podcast called sisters in sobriety.
And then, Sonia, you started so tell me about that
[00:11:06] Sonia: Yeah, a couple years ago, out of nowhere, my husband literally woke up one day and was like, Um, and we'd been together 18 years, and I had, No idea what I was going to do and I certainly didn't want to stay sober and so, I'd been sober five years by that point and I remember the first morning after he left thinking, well, I guess today is the day I'm going to drink, um, And I said, well, give it one more shot.
there was a meeting that I'd heard about online. We're sort of like at the end, end of the pandemic. And so there's a lot of online alcohol, meetings for women. And so I went and it was really nice. I loved hearing people's stories about how they were doing and their triumphs and struggles.
And it really helped, but there was like 200 people on the zoom call. I'm [00:12:00] an introvert and so I never went on camera and I never shared and that was fine for a few months. I was so broken that I wasn't really ready to talk about it. And there came a point where I was and I had Kathleen and I have another sister in law also that was married to my brother first.
And, um, you know, I had, yeah, I know, I know. Um, while he was drinking. Yeah. So I had them and we're super close. But there was something about not wanting to burden them, uh, especially given their experience with my brother, uh, with me drinking. I didn't want to burden them and say, I'm thinking about going out and getting, you know, a gallon of wine and drinking it tonight and then passing out.
And so I really needed a sober community and I had never really bothered to create one. And so I looked around for something where I could get to. People that were consistent. I just want to [00:13:00] see people every week so I don't have to go through my whole story again It's really hard to Get on and share, every week be like so then my husband left Then we found out he was cheating I just didn't want to have to repeat the the low lights of like my situation and so Uh, I looked for something that was consistent But the model usually for alcohol recovery is a drop in model and I love that You Because you can be upset, at 12 o'clock and go to an AA meeting at 1230.
And so I loved that, but I think that I needed something different at that time. And so I, I really was looking for this alternative and I couldn't find it. And I was, believe me, did not want to to start a business at that time and, but I really did want that support. And I thought if I, if I need it and I have.
The best sisters and family, checking on me every, like, hour, you know, [00:14:00] sometimes, and if I need it, I can't even imagine what other women with kids, with financial issues, like, what are they struggling with, and trying to stay sober. And so I just started Everbloom, and so we started kind of curating groups, and you know, everyone knows so much.
It's better than I thought it would be. They know so much about each other. They'll get on and be like, Rose, how's your sister doing? How's she after that surgery? And that's exactly what I wanted, and I will get on and tell them about, like, my horrible, like, bumble dates.
And, uh, you know, I'm part of the meeting as much as anyone. And so, yeah,
That's the story.
[00:14:42] Keri Vo: We'll get back to the interview after this quick break
[music fade in - different music than interludes: Pause for Abbracci Group mention][music fade out] return to intervi
[00:14:45] Kelly VO: The breakout comes to you from a broce group. We offer coaching and consulting to help you dig into change. Here's what we know. Only about 10% of us are really self-aware, without self-awareness. Improvement is [00:15:00] tough because if you don't know what box you're in, you can't break out of it.
That's where we come in.
[00:15:06] Keri Vo: we've got a soft spot for people itching to forge a fresh path.
The high flyers who need to be nudged out of career ruts teams who are looking to become more aligned. And yes, even those bold souls who've occasionally worn the jerk badge, connect with us@acegroup.com.
[00:15:25] Keri: when you think about alcohol, it's part of our culture. and the movies and socializing and let's go to happy hour and let's get a drink and, oh, it's wine o'clock. Every single thing I've seen talks about alcohol.
So you talk that on your website it's not all about abstinence. So, how do you help people kind of get around that and have a new relationship with alcohol?
[00:15:51] Sonia: I, what I started to notice was that most of the women coming to me did not, they didn't want to use the word alcoholic. They [00:16:00] didn't want to think about never drinking again. They just knew that they had started to use alcohol as a crutch. And, uh, You know, we just all we do is talk, right? It's not really a it's not like we have steps or program We just talk and we figure out the triggers like what are you using it for?
Is it a habit? Do you come home from work and when you're making dinner or do you put the kids to bed and then you drink and so? Can we break the habit and sometimes they can and Learn to have, you know, a glass of wine when they go out to dinner, and sometimes they can't, and they realize that they do need abstinence.
So, I would say, 90 percent of people come in, uh, wanting to moderate, and, and maybe 10 percent leave actually moderating.
[00:16:47] Keri: The most common stories that you hear with women who are having trouble with their relationship with alcohol?
[00:16:55] Sonia: the most common now is I started drinking during the pandemic. I [00:17:00] started drinking earlier, I started drinking every day, um, and I started drinking more and I was seeing sort of like the wine bottles pile up in the recycling and then when things went back to normal, they just were gone.
[00:17:16] Keri: how they feel as they were just stuck with this habit. Kathleen, we hear constantly about mental health, crisis now, um, are you seeing in your practice what are your thoughts on what's happening now
[00:17:27] Kathleen: Yeah, I'm seeing it as, uh, not just alcohol, but many different substances as a means to cope. So the only tool in their toolbox will be a substance. And using it as, uh, a mechanism to deal with profound grief. Grief that we might not think about like, not necessarily the death of someone, but the loss of something in their life.
And I certainly think the pandemic relates to that. I think that many people around the world [00:18:00] felt grief. They may not have identified it as such, but using substances to cope with grief, to cope with anxiety. I mean, we live in an anxiety riddled world.
[00:18:12] Keri: Yes.
[00:18:13] Kathleen: is tough to get through the day with everything that goes on in our world and be okay.
So,I work mostly with couples and I definitely see how substances are affecting those people and how it's really, really creating issues within relationships. So fueling conflict, fueling disconnection, um, I also work a lot with grief and just seeing alcohol and substances as a mechanism to cope.
yeah, it's definitely a huge problem.
[00:18:45] Keri: Yeah. that's such a good word, that grief,
Because you're right, it can be so overwhelming every single day.
[00:18:53] Kathleen: It
is, and there's not as many supports if you think about it that way. So if you think about not about [00:19:00] someone passing away, like, there's no meal train that's coming to the house. There's no checking up on to make sure you're okay. So what, what supports are you getting? When, you know, Sonia and I both have been divorced, that is a huge, huge amount of grief that goes along with a life change like that.
And instead of the meal train, there's stigma. Right? So, so it just adds to the grief of that. You know, she's, she's doing this on purpose because we had an argument at the kitchen table like two nights ago about Not doing it for this reason! You are! She keeps, she's like, keeps telling me and her daughter that we're in grief.
And like, and I'm like, And we're both like, nobody is dead. Like, just shut up. It's not Like, can we call something else? And her nine year old, my niece, is like the same way. She's like, stop calling it grief, money. And so It is grief. No, we needed, so we decided we needed a new word for it. I
[00:19:58] Keri: new word?
[00:19:59] riverside_sonia_kahlon_raw-audio_kathleen_killen and_0001: I
[00:19:59] Sonia: think we [00:20:00] called it like serif, like some asshole left kind of thing.
Or like Ridiculous. Yeah. We want it because it just yeah because you're right, right like we don't feel like we're getting the Accommodations of somebody who died like that's fair. Yeah, and so that's why we don't think it we want a new word Because we're not getting The positives of grief. Like, I don't, I have to, like, my husband didn't die.
That would be fine. This guy left. Like, and same thing with her dad, my brother. Like, he didn't die. He's just, like, picking her up for visits. Like.
[00:20:35] Keri: Yeah.
it's
like, how do we have grief
[00:20:37] riverside_sonia_kahlon_raw-audio_kathleen_killen and_0001: Oh my god. You did it on purpose. I didn't do it on purpose. Not everything is about you, Sonia.
[00:20:44] Keri: Whoa. This is why we need more relatives slash ex relatives, but still like on this podcast, Kelly, like we need more folks like you're calling me out right now. That's amazing. And thank
[00:20:58] Kathleen: But it's also like the idea we've [00:21:00] been talking about, like does she therapize us, right? And so, but like by labeling it Yeah, it is a job hazard, but see what I'm dealing
[00:21:10] riverside_sonia_kahlon_raw-audio_kathleen_killen and_0001: trying to like educate my
[00:21:11] Kathleen: daughter on grief and this one is it's not grief. No
[00:21:17] Keri: Someone's always got to have the auntie who is like messing with you I might do that to Kelly where I have a son and Kelly's the auntie and she comes in and she'll say, you're right. School does suck. Roman. I'm like, shut up. What are you doing?
[00:21:32] Kathleen: Yes, this
[00:21:33] Keri: Yeah. And she's like, but that's what an auntie does. So I get to do that. I was like, no, you don't. Cause
I
have to live with him.
[00:21:40] Sonia: I love being an time I babysat her overnight I like gave her pizza for breakfast and played her dmx And then you came home. We have a one night maximum now. go away. And I think she was still in her pajamas and hadn't showered.
And like, we went to [00:22:00] Starbucks. It's a one night maximum everybody.
[00:22:02] Keri: Kathleen, you and I will have a podcast with against aunties.
it's moms versus aunts.
[00:22:08] riverside_sonia_kahlon_raw-audio_kathleen_killen and_0001: I'm team Carrie,
[00:22:09] Keri: it?
You up?
You up for the anti podcast?
[00:22:12] Kelly: Absolutely, I mean, I love a good competition, so I'm in, for sure. Ladies, thank you so much for sharing your stories. And, and we were kind of alluding to this idea of stigma. And as people open up and share about addiction and mental health in particular, um, there is that stigma, as you so well know.
So how has it been for you to share your own stories kind of in your own unique way?
[00:22:36] Sonia: For sure, I think that part of my marriage ending was because of my sobriety. And so that was really painful to want to embrace it after that. And, um, But I did feel this stigma for a long time. And also there's this idea that, but I was functioning at such a high level, right? I got degrees, I started a [00:23:00] business, like I'm married, I bought a house, like I'm not going to refer to myself as an alcoholic.
And there's a stigma to that word. And so, yeah, I think that it's like embracing it has been the Probably amazing. I don't know if you've noticed difference in me since I really started embracing, like, my life is really about sobriety. Um, but Kathleen actually, I think, because I've been like at it for a while, but when I started tagging her on LinkedIn, On my sobriety stuff.
I think that's when you realized maybe there you felt a little bit of stigma
yeah, I definitely felt stigma because I I really didn't like a label of an addict I think I felt stigma just even with my family I had never told my mom that I had had a problem, uh, even though, you know, I was diagnosed with it.
I never even told her that and that was difficult for me. And then, yeah, LinkedIn. I have a huge [00:24:00] professional network. I used to be in crisis communications and issues management and, when Sonia, she started tagging me, uh, I was like, Oh my gosh, my professional network is going to know.
And I, I still have that feeling come up in me sometimes and I have to work at it to examine it. It's not that I push it down. I examine again, the belief, where is that coming from? And really examine it. But I do still feel it.
[00:24:28] Kelly: I mean, there's certainly a confidence that you both exhibit when you talk about your story. And I think one of the things that really, compelled me when I looked at, the Everbloom website, joineverbloom.
com is the idea of meeting people where they're at. It's just a really, um, beautiful, I think, message that you give to people and inspire them to maybe have a conversation that they didn't or maybe were fearful of having.
[00:24:51] Sonia: Yeah, I think that if I had known it was an option earlier to talk about my drinking [00:25:00] before I had quit, I think I maybe would have been in better shape. I maybe would have tried moderating a few more times and, you know, I think it's like a harm reduction idea. I could have been using less alcohol, um, but yeah, I think it's really important that We're promoting Whatever is healthier.
Can we get to something healthier? Can we get to you not drinking at all? But you're still taking your Like cannabis gummy to sleep. Is that an improvement over drinking three bottles of wine? And so yeah
[00:25:35] Kelly: that's kind of morphed itself too into your podcast, Sisters in Sobriety. So I wonder, what prompted you to start the podcast and what are some of the issues that you talk about?
[00:25:43] Sonia: yeah, so I started Everbloom and I had been on a ton of sobriety podcasts and I really, I love these podcasts. They helped me get sober when I first getting sober listening to them. But they're really just very, um, narrative [00:26:00] based. So it's the individual who's on as the guest and then their story.
But there's really no actionable. like no practical advice we really wanted to approach it from sort of a toolkit perspective, which is what we're super, super focused on in our lives and think that's what helps us stay sober.
so we kind of try to address. Um, sobriety or changing your relationship with alcohol in different ways. So we have like, we'll do an episode on self care and how to find the self care that works for you.
we just had a guest on who's a family therapist and like how to talk to your kids about addiction cause we have that issue, we have, you know, my brother and so How does Kathleen talk to my niece about his addiction and how it affects the family dynamics?
So yeah, I think we're, we're super topic based and so yeah, we didn't see another podcast like that, so we were like, that might be something that is missing and Kathleen's a therapist. [00:27:00] So She has some real qualifications. She forced me to do the podcast. She did.
[interlude 1 - k and k debrief - music fade in]
[00:27:07] Kelly: think for me it was just the, we're meeting people where they're at, as opposed to, find your way in our formula and figure out what that step is and follow that step. I mean, that's certainly very important that program has a place, um, for sure, but the fact that they've kind of taken it back a notch and said, it's about a community.
It's about feeling a part of something bigger than who you are
So, I think that is, a really beautiful way to engage people, even when they may be a bit uncertain as to what that next step should be
[00:27:41] Keri: Yes, you're so right, Kelly, because I might be very afraid to call myself an addict right now and jump in. And so if that doesn't feel like me, then I'm not going to go anywhere. I still need help, but I'm too afraid to go all in. That's that's, uh, it's too scary.So what Sonia, Sonia [00:28:00] did, I think is just great. And I really love how she's, I don't want to be in business.
I don't like people, which I got to love anyone who just comes out straight up. Doesn't like it. but yeah, it starts it because it's a need and it's a passion and she's trying to make a difference.
[00:28:15] Kelly: Yeah, agreed. I think, there's something to be said for just like letting yourself just stand in being uncomfortable and realizing that, you know, That's the first step is feeling uncomfortable. If you don't feel uncomfortable, you're not growing, you're not learning, you're not improving.
So, um, I'm comfortable quite a bit during the course of a day, but, um,
the kinder you can be to yourself. Um, the better off the experience will be in the end because you have all these preconceived notions of what it should be and that should word should go completely away.
[interlude ends - music fade out]
[00:28:47] Kathleen: So you have one minute with someone who is stuck, whether it's because of an addiction, relationship with alcohol, and they want to break out. What do each of you tell them? So Kathleen, [00:29:00] we'll start with you.
So one of the things that I think I would ask them is, when they're making decisions about their life, or contemplating breaking out, is their thought process from a place of fear? Or is it from a place of love? And when I say love, I don't mean romantic love. I actually mean a deeper kind of love, the love of self, the love of others, the love of life, And so understanding that love will open doors and to authenticity and fulfillment and fear will not. Um, so I think that's sort of the question I would ask to help someone break free, and then once they answer that question, they really have the power to change the narrative in their life.
[00:29:49] Kelly: So beautiful. Sonia, how about you?
[00:29:52] Sonia: I have to go after that.
[00:29:56] Kelly: The bar is high. The bar is high.
[00:29:58] Keri: I was gonna say, what would DMX say? [00:30:00] Like
[00:30:00] Sonia: Oh my god.
[00:30:01] Keri: mean? Like just,
[00:30:04] Sonia: I could, we could do a wrap, but that would, no, be uncomfortable. Um, for me, so everything is about, you know, And so I grew up and was married to somebody who was very tough love and keep everything inside and certainly don't tell people around you how you're feeling or what your weaknesses are. And it really I hate the word gift because I'm always like
I don't need another gift. Um, but it really was a gift when my husband left that I was So low I was on the floor I did not think I was going to survive it and pushed myself To tell people how I was feeling pushed myself every Kathleen Sometimes when she would text me or call I didn't want pick up.
I didn't want to text her back and my other sister in law and I had couple of really really close friends and I think that [00:31:00] tell somebody you want to break out but be careful who you tell like don't You know tell someone who you think is not going to be supportive but if you know people love you and you're thinking of in your life or trying out of a bad situation, I think that the people that love you will be there to support you and they don't need to give you advice.
They don't, you know, I always say like my, my nieces, I have two teenage nieces also. And, would be like upset about something and they would say, yeah, we never really liked him.
And I was like, right? Thanks. Like, and sometimes that's all I, that's all you really need to start to, you know, feel better about your decisions. And yeah, that's my advice is tell somebody, say something.
[00:31:41] Kelly: And it's beautiful first steps, tell someone that you, that you trust that will be your advocate throughout the journey because it's a long one, as you mentioned. And then I love thinking through the place of, are you coming from a place of fear when you're coming to make a decision or a place of love?
Um, the such. Um, powerful [00:32:00] questions to ask and uncomfortable, I would imagine at times as well. So Sonia and Kathleen, we're so grateful to you for, sharing your story, and staying true to who you are, and then paving it forward by having your podcast, Sisters in Sorority,
you two are just incredible.
[00:32:17] Kathleen: Thank you. so much. It's been a pleasure
[00:32:19] Kelly: so much. It was so great to have you on the podcast.
[00:32:23] Kelly VO: That was Sonia and Kathleen, hosts of Sisters in Sobriety, and this is the breakout from a brachy group.
[00:32:30] Keri Vo: At Abbracci Group, we specialize in coaching and consulting for brave new directions.
Connect with us at Abbracci group. com.
[00:32:38] Kelly VO: And don't forget to subscribe to the breakout, so you never miss a new episode. And make sure you're following us on Instagram at the breakout pod,
[00:32:47] Kelly: I'm Kelly Gunther.
[00:32:48] Keri Vo: And I'm Dr. Carrie Ulrich. See you next time.
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Connect with Sonia & Kathleen:
Sisters in Sobriety
Everblume
Sonia Kahlon LinkedIn
Kathleen Killen Psychotherapy
Kathleen Killen LinkedInConnect with Mental Health Supports:
In the US: Mental Health America Crisis Line
In Canada: Mental Health Support ServIces by Province
In the UK: NHS Mental Health Supports
International: Support by Country